Sales VS. Marketing Part 1

0:00 Okay, so what is marketing? Well, if you ask someone, they're always going to say, well, it's marketing and sales or sales and marketing. So when you hire someone, I'm hiring a sales and marketing expert. Those are kind of two different things. There are a lot of marketers out there, but there are very few skilled salesmen. I've got great news and some bad news. I just recorded this two-hour podcast that I thought was better chopped up in bits. So this is going to be part one of the podcast. And next week, of course, we're going to launch part two. Maybe we'll do a follow-up part three, as I discussed in the podcast. But you're going to hear some things that are kind of preluded in this part. It'll be in the next part. So don't go anywhere.

1:00 Subscribe, like, comment, share, do all those things so that you don't miss out. This is part one. Understanding sales and marketing is essential. And it matters for every single business, whether you're a corner coffee shop or an enterprise software as a service. Or I guess they call it cloud now. And today, we're going to imagine for a moment, you just opened up a bakery and now you want to get money coming in. Great. Not a problem. You can either choose one of two paths. You can be like everyone else who focuses on marketing. But marketing only tells people you exist.

2:01 I do this every time I open up a podcast. Hit the like. Hit the subscribe button. Let everyone know that you're enjoying this content. Remember, podcasts don't grow without loyal fans just like you who are subscribing a single week and getting this podcast and enjoying the content. And if you have any ideas, concepts, feel free to drop me a line. Drop me a DM on Instagram. And for all you know, that'll be the next topic on this podcast. So again, like, follow, and share this with someone, a small business owner, a coffee shop, a bakery, or someone you think might really, really use this podcast.

3:02 And of course, it depends on the product and service, but let's start with the basics, right? So what is marketing? Marketing is the activity or the processes for creating and communicating, delivering and exchanging offerings that have value for customers. Okay. It's a way of, it's a billboard. It's a way of saying, we have this, come to us. It's for creating, communicating, delivering and exchanging offerings that have value for customers, clients, partners, and society at large. Okay. This podcast is a avenue of marketing. My reels are an avenue of marketing. My social media avenue of marketing. All my contact forms on my website. My website is half a form of marketing and half a form of sales. So emphasizing, marketing emphasizes customer centricity,

4:03 not ads, but research, product development, pricing, and distribution. Okay. From a user point of view, from a customer point of view, from a client point of view. Okay. Sales, on the other hand, refers to all the activities involved in selling a product or service. Everything. From your, from a consumer or business, whether you're a B2B or B2C, that's business to customer or business to business. We're going to talk about a lot of terms. That's okay. You're going to learn a lot today. So if you're in sales, sales focuses on direct interaction, negotiation, closing deals, and relationship management, AKA marketing is how you tell people you exist, but sales is how you actually make money. The number one failure of many small businesses, of many new enterprises, small, medium, large, you name it, is focusing on marketing and not sales.

5:05 Because if you don't, you can tell people to your blue in the face, you exist and you have a story. But if you don't have a way of converting those MQLs to SQLs, oh, well, we'll get there. We'll get there. I swear. Now it'd also be a great time to share this podcast again. I know, but it's full of a lot of content and you're going to love it and you're going to enjoy it. Okay. So what's the confusion? Well, both aim to grow revenue. One is more direct. And so if you're a small business, I recommend focusing on sales and finding yourself someone who can help you with your sales.

6:06 where you're going to need a sales guy that's going to be in the trenches, making phone calls, working those emails, working those leads, working through those lists and converting, converting leads to acquisitions. Okay. And in our case, salespeople may have to bridge the gap between marketing and sales, but you're going to want a salesperson who's going to either know how to generate leads. If you're a small business, if you're just starting out, how to generate leads, find them, or pretty much people who are okay, cold calling and emailing and discovering new and creative ways to do it.

7:07 et cetera, and marketing lists. You can start building your email list. You can start doing free campaigns, free ebook offers, all of these things to help you get those leads. But you should focus on a salesperson who's going to start making introductions to your potential clients. Now, of course, if you don't know your potential clients, that's a whole nother discussion about demographics. In fact, let's break into that right now. And this part of the podcast might feel a little off the cuff because it's not in my notes, but building relationships, building clients, building customers has to begin with understanding your vision, your purpose, and your service, right? Wrong. You don't build a service and feature because you think it's cool. You build it around customers. So we call this,

8:08 I'll put my media producer's head on. We call this demographics. So when I create a commercial, I'm going through and I'm looking at the demographics. Like I just recently did a project for the mayor and we sat in his office, me and a group of people and we went through and we said, okay, this is the commercial one. Here's the idea. Here's the vision. Here's the purpose. And then I asked the follow-up questions. I was like, hey, just so you know, I'm a producer. I'm going to be asking you some questions that you're going to be like, is that a politically correct question?

9:10 medium-sized businesses, and new businesses who have the capital to invest into rebuilding their digital experience. Usually websites, videos, commercials, those kinds of things. And uplifting, a second part of my services, is consulting work. Working with them to build marketing, to build those sales processes. I can never guarantee results because algorithms and things and whatnot. But, hey, I had a client in November. I was able to quadruple the sales by fixing a key component and they got free advice. And, you know, they're skyrocketing and enjoying being a client of the universe. When you're developing your business, you're building your demographics, you're building a service, you need to know who are my target audience.

10:12 that's going to solve something. So, let's say it this way. my biggest selling point on your exchanging your digital services and building your digital services and uplifting them, rebranding, etc. is most small businesses, most medium-sized businesses even, and most new enterprises, even local enterprises, many, many cities have terrible, terrible websites. Whether they use Square, whether they use WordPress, whether they use whatever it is, Shopify, etc., everyone tends to hate their web experience because they hired someone, they thought, they knew what they were doing, and they kind of delivered them something that kind of didn't even look beautiful. It wasn't even on brand. And 90% of small businesses, and we did this throughout Columbus, Ohio, pulled all the businesses from search engines and we put them in an Excel spreadsheet and we pulled up

11:12 all their websites. 90% of websites do not tell a story. Do not work as marketing. They just work as billboards for your product and service. And to be honest, that's not how you're going to convert. And a lot of local businesses will be supported by their local community and they'll have clients and they'll have a good footing, right? Problem is, if they want to grow, if you want to scale, whether horizontally, that is expand the amount of employees at one location, or vertically, expanding into multiple locations, let's say multiple cities, you're going to want to upgrade your digital presence so that the experience for a potential prospect in MQL can easily convert into an SQL and that SQL, I know, I haven't given you those definitions yet, stay tuned. It's not Microsoft SQL query language, something else, stay tuned. and converting them from these prospects into your funnel

12:13 to finally creating a lead that's going to convert because they're going to be able to find out more about you. Let's take two digital experiences. One digital experience may focus less on the story and here's my product and service. Well, the other one's going to share, okay, here's our product and service. This is the pain point we solved. This is the solution. If you have a problem with X, we know 90% of people have a problem with Y and we're the solution. Great. You just told people this is the pain. This is the thing that hurts you.

13:13 and phone calls and they spent money and they spent all this stuff and it's just not working. Now, a performing sales website is a little bit different than a marketing website. A marketing website is going to pull in people, funnel them into your sales process and many customers when they get a brand new website. How do I say this? And no offense to XYZ freelance designer, but most freelance designers are either self-taught, even if they have college experience, they're so far disconnected from products and services from marketing that they generate a website that either looks good with no information or they generate a website that has all the information that you want to throw on there and it doesn't resonate with your potential demographic. Also, why? If you want to talk about costs and things, we have a high value because we do all those things. We look at your demographic, we do the research and we look at analytics

14:14 and we come back in three months and we make changes and we do all this stuff and we partner with you and our value add is much higher than, here's your little website. No, no, no, no. If you want to scale, you're going to need to focus on metrics, data and demographics. Marketing uses this information to inform contents, okay? However your lead generation approaches, forms content, which then pushes them into a sales funnel and pushes them into lead generation. You can't push people into lead generation if they don't exist and if people are going to your website, they're trying to figure out, are you legit?

15:16 there was a study done, the number, second reason why people leave abandoned carts is because your shipping costs are above and beyond what they expect. In fact, I'll be honest, most people will expect free shipping. In fact, oh man, I shouldn't give away all this free material. Dang. This is what, you know, when I consult with a company, I'm like, okay, you should do this and they get increased sales and I don't want to give this away, but okay, I'll give it, I'll give it away. Here's something you can do right now, right now. You can take your shipping costs, find out how many, what your average product number is per order, okay, remove the outliers.

16:17 of shipping and handling or warehouse storage or however it is, especially if you're doing Amazon fulfillment, and I'm going to divide that between eight different products or five different products. Usually, I encourage two or three because you'll get a little bit extra boost and you're looking at a pricing structure that consumes the cost and you're going to feel much, much better as a consumer. Consumers hate hidden costs. Okay. I'm working on a software as a service that's going to be a fantastic lead generation system that you're going to be able to collect everything that you need to conduct your business easily, efficiently, better than all the alternatives.

17:18 and a whole other podcast. But the number one thing is this service is designed to enhance and give you the ability to get someone an MQL, convert them to an SQL and convert them to a prospect. And I tell you, I tell you, this is very, very important, very, very important. When you're lead generating, you're telling your story and when you're telling your story, you convert people from prospects, potential leads, for leads, to a sale when you tell your story and you're able to share that vision. And a lot of the tools and resources that you'll use may have hidden fees. And when I'm building my service, I'm removing most of the hidden fees. Now, there are some fees that you're going to like, okay, I wish I didn't have to pay that. Like, there's going to be a fee

18:19 if you want AI to generate this sales page for you, this wizard for you. Okay, great. Not a problem. You pay it one time, click, move on. You know, that's not credit. It's not, it's a flat rate. Click, generates, retry, click, generates. You have a certain, you have a limited amount of retries because it cost me money to run the model, but you're not getting charged all this little bits and bits and bits. You know, if you want to use this, you're getting charged. I'm going to use this. Here's a number one hidden fee. If you are building a website and you're a marketing, and you want to use another service, but you want it to look like your service, people will charge you for something called white labeling. I decided, hey, it's not going to be 100% white labeling. There are some decisions I've had to make as a software-as-a-service operator. Removing those hidden fees, giving you the ability,

19:19 because especially when hidden fees literally don't cost you. Now, AI generation costs you because you have to either train an AI model or you pull one from, I don't know, some API somewhere, and that has a cost. Great. Flat rate cost, perfect. Email doesn't technically have a cost. It does have a resource cost. So, okay, maybe if you run email and respond to everyone, okay, there might be a cost. Storage is a real cost. Okay, but you know all those up front. It's not like we're saying, so you can purchase package A, great, includes everything.

20:20 six bucks or 5.75 or whatever it is. And the tax is now included. So, when I make a purchase, I'm like, okay, I'd like to buy that latte. I'm not told, okay, the final cost is 7.35 when it's 5.75 or whatever it is. You're not shocked. You're like, okay, I know what I want. I want this, this, and you feel like, A, you can buy more and B, your experience is, I'm not experiencing hidden cost. Tax is not a hidden cost, right? Sales tax is a hidden cost. Everyone has to pay a sales tax, but to the consumer, when they see sales tax as a line item, when they see shipping as a line item, it is a hidden cost that they weren't aware of when they went to make a purchase.

21:21 it's a hidden cost and you're going to pay for those hidden costs and you're going to have decreased sales and decreased conversion rates because the customer is going to feel like their experience is, I'm overpaying. When you said, this is my price, but that's my price, here's a real cool difference. Airbnb, same thing. Originally, they did a marketing strategy where they're going to tell you, this is how much it costs to rent. They're going to hide cleaning fees, et cetera, and taxes. Well, recently, they updated their app and now you're seeing the final cost. So I'm not seeing, I mean, the hidden fees will be itemized, they'll be like, this is the original price of the rentable, blah, but you're seeing the total, including taxes. And let me tell you, I felt personally more free paying for a $500, $800 Airbnb or $200 Airbnb or whatever it is when I was doing some research

22:21 for a trip I'm taking. I discovered the experience felt better. But my world is experiential marketing. Customer comes in, oh, that's the price. Sure, I can pay that instead of, ooh, that's the, ooh, that's a shipping fee. Ooh, that's a tax fee. That's 10% more. Customers will probably spend more because they'll feel like they don't have to hold back as much and that your items are consistent. And not everyone lets you include sales tax baked into the price. Maybe you have to like itemize it on the checkout page depending on the state or province or what have you. Some countries have some different weird rules. We broke down what marketing is, right? Marketing is the process of saying you exist, right? And it's for creating, communicating, delivering, and exchanging offerings. Free email newsletter, a microsite,

23:22 a sales page, a single page site that's just to generate leads. That's marketing. That's marketing, okay? And sales is the process of which you're of which you're gaining that relationship, you're negotiating, and you're conducting the sale. Now, many people will think marketing before sales. Like the step is marketing and you go into sales. If you're bootstrapping, right? You may have seen the interview with director Alfredo Battle where he did cold calls. That's all sales. He did research. He pulled up client information, find out what their needs were, found out a little about them, called them on the phone, did a sales action, and created a sales process. You should start a business without emphasizing marketing. Not that it's not important, just not until you're on some solid foundation and you need to start scaling horizontally or vertically

24:22 as we talked earlier should you move and put more emphasis on marketing and then it's a shift, right? Start with sales because it's going to make you money. Have some marketing material. Grow there. Learn. Experiment. Try things. Get a consultant. Hire me. I don't know. Help yourself. So your company focuses on sales internally. You get in, maybe it's once a month or once a quarter. You bring in a consultant like myself. We talk about marketing strategies. We give your sales people lots of advice. You say, try this. This is going to, we've seen growth here.

25:23 you're making in the money and you can start spending money in marketing. The big, big, big, big thing is someone wants to hire a $150,000 marketer, $250,000 marketer, $350,000 annual salary marketing executive when they don't have an MVP, their engineers are still designing this software or they don't have a product yet. They're still prototyping and you're like, you're wasting, wasting, wasting, hundreds of thousands of dollars. You'd be surprised how many businesses fail in Silicon Valley because they waste money in marketing. To be honest, when you have nothing to market, you're wasting money. Now, if you're getting close to a final prototype and you're getting close to finals and you have the capital, okay, maybe, but it's much better to produce a final product, take it to testing, testing, at least one testing round, take it to testing,

26:24 make revisions, then go hire your self-marketing because you now know kind of what the product is. You kind of see how users are working with it and experimenting with it, whether it's a physical product or software as a service, you kind of have an idea. Okay, great. If you don't know your demographic, which by the way, your digital demographic, people who see your website, online, social media, Instagram, all that may be different than your in-store demographic, okay? And even though social media will bridge the gap between the two a little bit, your in-store demographic may be because it's the community you're around and that's the purchases are coming from there.

27:24 you want to do X, Y, Z, A, B, C, E, all these things, you may find out that focusing on one line of business or two lines of business maybe and consider scaling in the future when you have this business process checked, this business process checked. Let me help you. If you're a owner of a business and you have a vision, you need need to build processes, cement the processes and have teams around those processes so you can remove things from your time. Think of it this way. Think of it this way. Let's say I charge hourly.

28:26 This is how much money you're wasting. Okay. Because you only have so much creative energy in your being a day before you have to go to sleep and refresh that battery, which in fact, the creative part of your brain takes eight times what the logical part of your brain takes to recover. So if you build processes, if you build the team, it's going to be easier for your business to flow, easier for you creatively, and you're going to be taking time and you're going to find that you're spending, here's an example. I was spending two to six hours a post to do captions and things.

29:26 to five kind of okay bytes, or I could choose my own and I can put it in the system and it will generate all the overlays, the images, the captions, it'll completely edit all the things that I would do for about six hours, it'll do. And all I have to do is trim. All I have to do is make sure the captions are, so my six hour a post timeline, time is my hourly, is a lot of money. And I pay $9.99 in 30 minutes or an hour of my time. And I can even, because it's my phone, I don't have to bring my laptop around with me.

30:28 it easier for small businesses, for new businesses, for entrepreneurs to bootstrap and create without having to need all this capital. Oh my lord. It's such a whole new world. 20 years ago, I could have not started this business. Okay, but anyway, so let's actually get to some, oh, the confusion between is that while they both aim to grow revenue, both have different mindsets and different metrics. One is leads, one is deals. Sales is deals, marketing is leads. I will synonymously move leads from marketing to sales all the time. let's move on a little bit to some important information.

31:28 leads for you. And the sales people will kind of be lazy and just work those leads. I'm not saying that they're lazy. What I'm saying is, is they're going to expect that marketing process to do it for them. When I started hiring commission-based sales people, everyone's like, well, don't you have the processes? Don't you have the leads? And I'm like, I have lists, but here's the reality. You're going to make those calls. You've got to establish the connection. You have to build it. And most sales people will assume if they're base level, right? Base level, entry level, trying to get into sales, just trying to make a quick buck.

32:28 going to be different than on the website because they're two different demographics. You're a walk-in, you're not digital. You may have come from digital, you may have been able to read, they're going to know a whole different set of information. They might not even be up to date with the website. They don't have to to sell. They're trained differently because you're a different demographic when you walk in the store versus when you go online and make a purchase there. The key differences and overlaps, right? So in marketing, it's brand awareness. New companies waste, waste money on building brands and logos.

33:28 five, usually 12 to 15, way down there, iterations where okay, I can start focusing on marketing, I've got good processes. Once you can say, here, salesperson, take this process and they run with that process and you can go to another salesperson, here's a sales process and they can run with that process. Once you have sales processes, that's the time you can start spending money in marketing. Of course, when you have the capital, your salespeople should be bringing in revenue, they shouldn't be costing more than your revenue and they should be bringing in sales, okay? Once you've reached a certain point, you know what it is, you know your accounting, then pull it in.

34:29 vast amount of people to purchase this service for the numbers to make sense, as opposed to a one-on-one service like commercials, consulting, website design, those kinds of things, that's really sales, more sales oriented because even though I could get a thousand leads today and be excited about that, now I have to call all thousand and we have to work deals and all thousands to put them on the production calendar as opposed to a software as a service or a product, like if you're selling t-shirts, you need marketing, great. Find customers that love your product, find out why they love your product, start asking questions, it's okay to survey your customers, they love it, hey, we just sent you this wonderful product, what did you think?

35:29 up, hey, what did you think? Maybe you had a chance to use it. If not, call them back in two weeks, get some information, it's going to be a little bit different information, right, because for sales, you kind of want that FOMO, that fear of missing out, so you want to see what the first experience is, so you can capture that, replicate it, or make changes to it, so that that fear of missing out is increased when someone goes, oh, okay, my friend had that, and I love that, and I don't have one, and I need one, and I want one.

36:30 subscriptions, turnovers into free courses, all those kinds of things, right? And then that'll help you know your conversion rates, okay? I'm going to get 10,000 people in. Industry standard is 1%, so 1% of 10,000. Well, it's not 1,000, it's 100. So you get 10,000 people to your website, you should be able to convert around 50 to 100 people. A good website, in theory. There are also some other things that you need to pay attention to, but you should, if you get 10,000 people to your website, great, sales can start coming in. Of course, it takes time to establish that if you build a new website, you know, it takes, some people are saying it takes a year to two for search engines to find it.

37:30 think about your product naturally, that natural language model is going to find your product and showcase it. It's going to be very interesting if this kind of concept works for small businesses. It may or may not because to be honest, corporations can build a process, right? Marketing can build a huge process, create this huge process, have their 50 fleet of employees, 500 employees go, okay, follow this new process with a margin of error, you know, and boom, they're updated, they're ready to go. Where you're a small business and you're like, I'm the marketing guy, I'm the sales guy, I'm the accountant, I'm the like, yes, so we understand small businesses wear a lot of hats and it gets complicated, but that's also where AI should be helping you, apps should be helping you find out where, do that spreadsheet, just do like, this concept comes from something called a time study. And I'm going to put

38:30 this in here so that it shows my reels and I can share it with you. A time study is the ancient process of knowing what you're doing with your time. I may get a little bit prophetically loud there. Knowing what you're doing with your time. Where are you spending your time? If you're at the gym for six hours and you're spending two hours, this is not something I did, just an example, two hours building a product, you're never going to have a product. If I was spending two hours to the gym and I cut it down to about an hour, cut it down about 45 minutes to an hour, I'm going to bend and I multitask.

39:30 Don't just build someone else's footprint for your business. Find out where time is being wasted. Your time is being wasted. Either remove it or replace it because you need to be focusing on growth, scaling horizontally and vertically, improving systems and being a leader to your team, not being bogged down by social media. I rest and do that. Now, sales metrics, right? They're pipeline velocity. Okay? People come in the funnel. Is it growing? Am I seeing percentages increase? It's kind of like watching the social media analytics. Is it working or is it not working? And then deal close rate.

40:31 expensive chef somewhere and you're spending $500,000 a meeting and you close a $5,000 deal, you've made $0. Also, good luck getting that expensed. Just saying. All of my sales guys, just good luck getting that expensed. Because you're in the business to make money. So that deal close rate will help inform you which type of clients aren't closing deals fast enough to make sure it contains profitability and that your sales people aren't losing momentum. One of the biggest metrics that most businesses, even non-profits, churches that I've worked with, non-profits everywhere, the number one metric they fail to include in reviews and employee evaluations to see if volunteers or employees are in a good standing with the relationship need to be dismissed or promoted. The number one thing is morale. Now,

41:33 a lot of people will assume that professionally you should have no emotions. Honestly, this is how they run. They don't care how you feel. They care that the bottom line hits. I would agree the bottom line should be hit. But, if you have someone who's depressed, if you have someone that has anxiety, if you have someone that's stressed, if you have someone who's in a lot of debt financially, you're the key talent person that's struggling with debt, let me tell you, they're going to crash and burn and you're going to lose that person. Just letting you know.

42:33 wear multiple hats, unicorns in the industry that are going to help you scale. Without good and high-value talent, you're not going to scale very successfully very fast. You can still scale, but it's going to be slower and your success rate is going to be lower because you don't have to hire more people as opposed to finding key talent who can kind of conquer it all or at least take a huge part of that pie to help you scale. If you've seen employees' performance drop, their metrics drop, it's usually an indicator that something personal is leaking into the professional and causing them to be hurt.

43:34 in 15, 30 days or whatever the timeline is. We have to fix your metrics. We're going to have your exit interview. Sorry, but if we had a conversation and you agreed to make the change and you don't make the change and things get worse and your metrics go down. Now, if you don't make the change, you make a different change, but your metrics go back up because businesses have to be data-driven. I'm Justin Kazmierczak. This is JumpCutKing. This is the Create Podcast. And I just want to remind you before we go, biggest takeaway, biggest takeaway, biggest takeaway.

44:34 someone else's business and slap your name on it. If you want to create a good business, you want to create, learn what your customers want, what your customers need, beyond want, need and find a way to reach them and execute those sales, then grow into marketing so you can scale vertically, horizontally. Grow. I want you to grow. Be creative. If you're an entrepreneur, start with sales. Recommend it. We'll see you next time right here on this podcast. We'll see you next time.